Comments on: A grace (note)-full Gate of Kiev http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2007/09/15/a-grace-note-full-gate-of-kiev/ Music, opinion, life as a performing musician Thu, 09 Feb 2012 05:19:14 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Kenneth Woods http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2007/09/15/a-grace-note-full-gate-of-kiev/comment-page-1/#comment-18411 Kenneth Woods Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:01:56 +0000 http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2007/09/15/a-grace-note-full-gate-of-kiev/#comment-18411 Hi Bill You're absolutely right, and the parellel might then be looking at what happens with a trill when you orchestrate a piano work. Brahms often used piano writing to dictate rubato- if he writes a leap to chord that is impossible to play in time, he clearly did not intend the performer to play it in time. In the solo piano works, that's not a problem, but in the chamber music you'll sometimes here string players react snootily when the pianist says "I need a bit of time for that leap." Brahms knew the pianist would need that time, and probably put that leap there to make the time happen, because there were probably other ways he could have written it to make the leap easier. Then imagine what happens when you transcribe a Brahms piano work for orchestra, like Schoenberg's transcription of the G minor quartet. How many conductors who do this piece really know the piano writing of the original well enough to judge the rubatos that Brahms wanted? Cheers Bill, and thanks for reading. Ken Hi Bill

You’re absolutely right, and the parellel might then be looking at what happens with a trill when you orchestrate a piano work.

Brahms often used piano writing to dictate rubato- if he writes a leap to chord that is impossible to play in time, he clearly did not intend the performer to play it in time. In the solo piano works, that’s not a problem, but in the chamber music you’ll sometimes here string players react snootily when the pianist says “I need a bit of time for that leap.” Brahms knew the pianist would need that time, and probably put that leap there to make the time happen, because there were probably other ways he could have written it to make the leap easier.

Then imagine what happens when you transcribe a Brahms piano work for orchestra, like Schoenberg’s transcription of the G minor quartet. How many conductors who do this piece really know the piano writing of the original well enough to judge the rubatos that Brahms wanted?

Cheers Bill, and thanks for reading.

Ken

]]> By: Bill Brice http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2007/09/15/a-grace-note-full-gate-of-kiev/comment-page-1/#comment-18405 Bill Brice Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:53:17 +0000 http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2007/09/15/a-grace-note-full-gate-of-kiev/#comment-18405 Similar considerations apply to the other "inexact" notations... Take the trill, for example: Pianists know a trill that lies low in the left hand should generally be slower than a trill in the upper register. This might be a case where the acoustics of the instrument suggest a realization, but there are also cases where the musical context should guide. A sensitive tympanist might, for example, play a roll more slowly in one of those Mahler "trauermusik" sections than he might in a more martial setting. Similar considerations apply to the other “inexact” notations… Take the trill, for example: Pianists know a trill that lies low in the left hand should generally be slower than a trill in the upper register. This might be a case where the acoustics of the instrument suggest a realization, but there are also cases where the musical context should guide. A sensitive tympanist might, for example, play a roll more slowly in one of those Mahler “trauermusik” sections than he might in a more martial setting.

]]> By: ComposerBastard http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2007/09/15/a-grace-note-full-gate-of-kiev/comment-page-1/#comment-18312 ComposerBastard Wed, 19 Sep 2007 16:34:17 +0000 http://kennethwoods.net/blog1/2007/09/15/a-grace-note-full-gate-of-kiev/#comment-18312 Graace notes speed should adjust to the acoustics of the hall. You might take a view that Its a coloring or blending to imbue ambiguity or suspension. Same with trills... Graace notes speed should adjust to the acoustics of the hall.

You might take a view that Its a coloring or blending to imbue ambiguity or suspension. Same with trills…

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