{"id":1448,"date":"2010-02-19T18:11:35","date_gmt":"2010-02-19T17:11:35","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/?p=1448"},"modified":"2013-07-15T08:17:23","modified_gmt":"2013-07-15T08:17:23","slug":"performers-perspective-mahler-5-a-tempo","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/2010\/02\/19\/performers-perspective-mahler-5-a-tempo\/","title":{"rendered":"Performer&#8217;s Perspective- Mahler 5, a tempo"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/01\/Mahler-in-Manchester.jpg\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-1261 alignnone\" title=\"Print\" alt=\"Mahler in Manchester\" src=\"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/01\/Mahler-in-Manchester.jpg\" width=\"300\" height=\"168\" \/><\/a><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><strong>The Scherzo is a damnable movement. It will have a long history of suffering! Conductors will take it too fast for fifty years, and audiences\u2014Oh heavens\u2014what sort of faces will they pull at this chaos\u2026..\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>(Gustav Mahler, speaking of his 5<sup>th<\/sup> Symphony before the 1904 premiere. )<\/p>\n<p>This quote of Mahler\u2019s often appears in program notes- usually citied as a manifestation of his insecurity and megalomania, and also as a measure of the Herculean difficulty of the piece. But what of the specific musical concern he cites- that conductors will take the Scherzo \u201ctoo fast for fifty years?\u201d<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p>Interestingly, for all that one hardly ever reads a review of a performance of the 5<sup>th<\/sup> that doesn\u2019t include a timing for the Adagietto (\u201cthe maestro brought the Adagietto in at a brisk and worthy 8\u2019 20\u2019\u2019\u2026\u201d or \u201cthe maestro wallowed his way to a lugubrious 10\u2019 5\u2019\u2019\u2026\u201d are typical of the writing on that movement), I\u2019ve hardly ever seen a conductor taken to task for taking the Scherzo too fast. I think this is mostly because we have a very vague idea of what Mahler meant by \u201ctoo fast\u201d when he wrote about this movement.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, I\u2019d say 90% of the performances of the Scherzo take <a href=\"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/02\/Mahler-V.3-BZ-Opening.mp3\">the opening tempo in a comfortable \u201ctempo di valse,\u201d<\/a> and that\u00a0it does sound great at that tempo.\u00a0A small minority, including <a href=\"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/02\/Mahler-V.3-Bernstein-Opening-87.mp3\">Bernstein <\/a>and <a href=\"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/02\/Mahler-V.3-Barshai.mp3\">Barshai,<\/a> take it slower, and &#8220;in three&#8221; instead of &#8220;in one.&#8221; However<em><strong>, I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever heard a single performance that went any faster<\/strong><\/em> than the 90% of conductors who treat the movement as a waltz.<\/p>\n<p>So, was Mahler needlessly worried? Was he envisioning some sort of crazed, keystone-cops whirling dervish prestissimo that not even 100 years of other conductors were stupid enough to try? Or was he actually worried that conductors would, as 90% of them do, treat the opening section of the Scherzo as a waltz. (Hint- Mahler is never wrong about the likely failings of conductors)<\/p>\n<p>Well- although many commentators refer to the Scherzo as a waltz, Mahler certainly doesn\u2019t indicate Tempo di Valse or anything of the sort. <strong>Kraftig<\/strong> (\u201cstrongly\u201d or \u201cvigorously\u201d). <strong>Nicht zu schnell<\/strong> (\u201cnot too fast\u201d), and then just five bars in the movement- <strong>Nicht eilen<\/strong> (\u201cunhurried\u201d). The next tempo marking at bar 60? <strong>Nicht eilen<\/strong>, again! How about the next one? Bar 108- <strong>Nicht eilen<\/strong>, again!!! It\u2019s not until 120 bars into the piece that Mahler tells us to get a move on<strong>&#8211;\u00a0 \u201cWider flessender\u201d<\/strong> or \u201cagain more flowing.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>In fact, it seems clear to me (and Donald Mitchell and\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.andante.com\/profiles\/Mahler\/symph5.cfm\">Henry Louis de la Grange<\/a> both seem to agree) that this opening section is\u00a0<em><strong>not a waltz, but a Landler<\/strong><\/em>. The Landler, being a country dance, is slower than the waltz, and is felt in \u201cthree,\u201d not \u201cone.\u201d If it is a Landler, and 90 % of my colleagues are conducting it as a waltz, then I think Mahler\u2019s 50 year prediction was wildly optimistic- it\u2019s 105 years since the premiere, and many conductors are still taking it too fast.<\/p>\n<p>Of course, the Scherzo does include a very seductive and sophisticated waltz- <a href=\"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/02\/Mahler-V.3-Slow-Waltz.mp3\">first heard as a slow waltz at fig. 6. <\/a>This music eventually forms the basis of the <a href=\"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/02\/Mahler-V.3-Dionysus.mp3\">wildly Dionysian climax o<\/a>f the entire movement. It\u2019s a deconstruction of <em>fin de siecle<\/em> Vienna even more decadent than Ravel\u2019s in La Valse. But that is all to come when the movement begins\u2026.<\/p>\n<p>One reason I think 90% of conductors take the opening in a waltz tempo is that\u00a0<em><strong>it feels and sounds more elegant and natural than the slower version<\/strong><\/em>. In three, the music can sound frustratingly controlled, even awkward. You could easily make a case that the waltz tempo sounds and feels more pleasing and comfortable to the vast majority of musicians and listeners. Well, isn\u2019t that proof positive that the quick opening of the Scherzo is right, and that Mahler\u2019s concerns were unfounded?<\/p>\n<p>Is there ever a time when we intentionally adopt a performance approach that is not the most pleasing and ingratiating? Should music, particularly the performance of music, ever intentionally irritate and displease?<\/p>\n<p>Donald Mitchell \u00a0and and Constantin Floros may have also uncovered a key piece of evidence in understanding Mahler\u2019s intentions with regard to tempo in the Scherzo. It turns out that both Richard Specht, who published the first study of Mahler in 1905, and Mahler&#8217;s friend and pupil Bruno Walter * called attention to the influence of Goethe\u2019s poem, \u201cAn Schwager Kronos\u201d (\u201cTo Brother Time, Coachman\u201d) on this movement. Walter went so far as to state that <strong><em>the entire Scherzo grew out of\u00a0Goethe\u2019s poem.<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Take the opening stanza of the poem-<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">\u201cHurry on, Time, at a rattling trot!<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">The road runs downhill,<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">Your dawdling makes things swim before my eyes\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The writer describes not the \u201churrying on\u201d of time, but its \u201crattling trot.\u201d It\u2019s clear that things are very \u201cnicht eilen,\u201d <strong><em>to the annoyance<\/em> of<\/strong> the narrator. If the opening of the Scherzo refers to the opening of the poem (something we can never know with certainty), <span style=\"text-decoration: underline;\">it\u2019s not supposed to sound breezy, natural, elegant and flowing<\/span>. It\u2019s supposed to <strong><em>test our patience<\/em><\/strong>\u2014\u201cyour dawdling makes things swim before my eyes.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Anyway, whether you\u2019re persuaded by the poem or by the stylistic evidence of the type of dance we\u2019re dealing with, I think the lesson is that you can\u2019t always make musical decisions based on what sounds or feels \u201cbest\u201d in a given moment, because music isn\u2019t always supposed to please and make us comfortable. Especially in the context of this symphony- the unease and impatience depicted in the opening of the poem seem a more logical fit with the torments and destruction of Part I, and a simple, carefree waltz.<\/p>\n<p>What else does the poem tell us about this movement? Well, I can\u2019t help but be reminded of the<a href=\"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/02\/Mahler-V.3-Alphorns.mp3\"> Alphorn calls at figure 10 <\/a>when I read this stanza-<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">\u201cHigh, wide and glorious the prospect of life rings us round.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">The eternal spirit soars\u00a0<strong>from peak to peak,<\/strong><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">Full of intimations of eternal life.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>And then<a href=\"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/02\/Mahler-V.3-Schuchtern.mp3\"> there is that sexy slow waltz<\/a>&#8211; if our narrator has been trying to drive Brother Time on his way, this seems a welcome diversion\u2026<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">\u201cA shadowy doorway beckons you aside<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">Across the threshold of the girl\u2019s house,<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">And her eyes promise refreshment\u2026.<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">Take comfort!<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">For me too, lass, that sparkling draught<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">That fresh and healthy look\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The sensuality of Goethe\u2019s imagery matches so well with the decadence of the waltz theme, and the flirty, coquettish \u201csch\u00fcchtern\u201d (&#8220;coy&#8221;) oboe solo.<\/p>\n<p>An then, there\u2019s the answer to why the whole movement has, at it\u2019s heart, a horn solo, when the poet implores Brother Time, as they descend, \u201cblind and reeling through the dark gates of Hell\u201d-<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><a href=\"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/02\/Mahler-V.3-Blow-your-horn-brother.mp3\">\u201cBlow your horn, brother, clatter on at a noisy trot.<\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">Let Orcus know we are coming,<\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\">so that mine host will be there at the door to welcome us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>If Walter and and Specht were right, and this movement is based on An Schwager Kronos, and it seems like it can even be considered a setting of that poem, then that puts the movement closer in spirit to a movement I&#8217;ve not really heard it compared to. The most obviously related movement in the Mahler symphonies is the Scherzo of the 1st, which is even based largely on the same waltz rhythm (dotted crotchet, quaver, crotchet). \u00a0However, perhaps the more apt parallel is in the first movement of Das Lied von der Erde, a song in which the poet finds a similar catharsis in oblivion.<\/p>\n<p><strong>An Schwager Kronos<\/strong><strong><br \/>\n<strong>\u201cTo Brother Time the Coachman\u201d<\/strong><br \/>\n<\/strong>\u2013by Goethe<br \/>\n<em>translation by Norma Deane and Celia Larner<\/em><em><br \/>\n<\/em> \u201cHurry on, Time, at a rattling trot!<br \/>\nThe road runs downhill,<br \/>\nYour dawdling makes things swim before my eyes.<br \/>\nOn at a brisk pace, over stick and stone,<br \/>\nStumbling headlong into life!<br \/>\nNow once more toiling uphill, out of breath\u2014<br \/>\nUp then, no slacking, upward striving and hoping \u2026\u2026.<br \/>\nHigh, wide and glorious the prospect of life rings us round.<br \/>\nThe eternal spirit soars from peak to peak,<br \/>\nFull of intimations of eternal life.<br \/>\nA shadowy doorway beckons you aside<br \/>\nAcross the threshold of the girl\u2019s house,<br \/>\nAnd her eyes promise refreshment.<br \/>\nTake comfort! For me too, lass, that sparkling draught<br \/>\nThat fresh and healthy look.<br \/>\nDown then, faster down!<br \/>\nSee, the sun sinks. Before it sets,<br \/>\nbefore the marsh-mist envelopes me in my old age,<\/p>\n<p>with toothless gnashing jaws and tottering limbs<br \/>\nSnatch me, drunk with the sun\u2019s last ray,<br \/>\na sea of fire boiling up before my eyes,<br \/>\nblind and reeling through the dark gates of Hell.<br \/>\nBlow your horn, brother, clatter on at a noisy trot.<br \/>\nLet Orcus know we are coming,<br \/>\nso that mine host will be there at the door to welcome us.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>*\u00a0 Interestingly, Bruno Walter\u2019s recording of the Scherzo is one of the fastest and\u00a0strangest on record. His<a href=\"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/02\/Mahler-V.3-Walter-opening1.mp3\"> basic tempo is on the fast side of a waltz tempo,<\/a> but far worse, <a href=\"http:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-content\/uploads\/2010\/02\/Mahler-V.3-Walter-slow-waltz.mp3\">he stays in his Hauptempo for the slow waltz at fig. 6 <\/a>and the parallel places. When writers call attention to his 7\u2019 Adagietto, they seem to forget that his Scherzo was 2 minutes faster than any of Mahler\u2019s performances of it. Walter\u2019s performances of Mahler are often wonderful and are important to know, but where there is a divergence between Mahler\u2019s text and Walter\u2019s performance, I think it\u2019s easy to know what must be regarded as the authority. From a purely technical point of view, many players report that Walter had a very hard time controlling and maintaining broad tempi.<\/p>\n<p>Finally- A practical note about the Landler tempo. If one goes even one notch too slow in this opening, the music simply collapses. Waltz tempo is safe but possibly wrong, Landler tempo is possibly right and \u00a0disastrous- the margin for error in finding the right landler tempo is tiny. Trotting and plodding are two different things.<\/p>\n<div id=\"wp_fb_like_button\" style=\"margin:5px 0;float:none;height:100px;\"><script src=\"http:\/\/connect.facebook.net\/en_US\/all.js#xfbml=1\"><\/script><fb:like href=\"https:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/2010\/02\/19\/performers-perspective-mahler-5-a-tempo\/\" send=\"false\" layout=\"box_count\" width=\"450\" show_faces=\"true\" font=\"arial\" action=\"like\" colorscheme=\"light\"><\/fb:like><\/div>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Scherzo is a damnable movement. It will have a long history of suffering! Conductors will take it too fast for fifty years, and audiences\u2014Oh heavens\u2014what sort of faces will they pull at this chaos\u2026..\u201d (Gustav Mahler, speaking of his 5th Symphony before the 1904 premiere. ) This quote of Mahler\u2019s often appears [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[2,224,7],"tags":[267,1064,1072,35,268],"class_list":["post-1448","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-mahler","category-mahler-in-manchester","category-masterclass","tag-an-schwager-kronos","tag-mahler","tag-mahler-in-manchester","tag-tempo","tag-walter"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1448","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=1448"}],"version-history":[{"count":7,"href":"https:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1448\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":1461,"href":"https:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/1448\/revisions\/1461"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=1448"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=1448"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/kennethwoods.net\/blog1\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=1448"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}